tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post7194483283858359354..comments2023-06-05T04:26:27.437-07:00Comments on Forty Shades Of Grey: A cut-out-and-keep guide to feminism for Louise MenschForty Shades Of Greyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07070982468518425595noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-19403053213150637062012-02-10T15:17:09.727-08:002012-02-10T15:17:09.727-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-78594222605299872362012-01-29T09:06:28.198-08:002012-01-29T09:06:28.198-08:00she also said about feminists "they hate me a...she also said about feminists "they hate me and I hate them".grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06464304966313548722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-37782641339605474782012-01-27T13:20:40.429-08:002012-01-27T13:20:40.429-08:00no need for it. you got one trivial thing wrong t...no need for it. you got one trivial thing wrong therefore your whole argument can be dismissed. Tory logic, see?Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00942482459228462106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-82622066142713205782012-01-27T09:09:34.900-08:002012-01-27T09:09:34.900-08:00Mike Buchanan returned. He lied and moaned, so I d...Mike Buchanan returned. He lied and moaned, so I deleted his comment. There's a clear comments policy Mike, go look at it. Here's what he did this time:<br /><br />1: "I've never been abusive to ANYONE! Despite calling them whining sour-faced misandrists!"<br />2: Accuses me of thinking 'being challenged' is equivalent to 'abuse'. Tells me to 'grow up'. You're about as challenging as pissing through a blue rizla, Mike.<br />3: "I don't patronise women!" "Grow up!" "I even said Harriet Harman was foxy for a feminist which I thought was chivalrous!"<br />4: Accuses me of thinking women are all automatically better than men. Causes me to roll eyes, which my optician has specifically advised against.<br />5: Uses a clear joke from the main article to 'illustrate' how obviously 'misandrist' I am.<br />6: Accuses me of lying about previous comment's content. I have a copy if anyone's willing to put their brain through the torment of trying to decipher this idiot's babble.<br /><br /><br />To answer your specific question about my other deletion, Mike:<br /><br />It was a joke that I deleted your post for Thatcher-glorifying. Not a joke that you'd said it in the first place. (Some things one does not joke about)Forty Shades Of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07070982468518425595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-60632397227410662862012-01-27T07:46:45.676-08:002012-01-27T07:46:45.676-08:00And may I add, that's only the second comment ...And may I add, that's only the second comment I've ever deleted. I have a very clear comments policy and don't pre-moderate. If anyone wants to try debating 'the right to free speech' (on my one teeeeeeeny website in the whole internet) with me, come at me - but you will lose.Forty Shades Of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07070982468518425595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-58796221532472805132012-01-27T07:44:29.743-08:002012-01-27T07:44:29.743-08:00Deleted a comment by Mike Buchanan for the followi...Deleted a comment by Mike Buchanan for the following reasons:<br /><br />1: He is a well-known troll who has been very abusive to several people I like,<br />2: Patronising women<br />3: Insulting people's appearances<br />4: Objectifying women<br />5: Pretending feminism = 'hatred of men'<br />6: Thatcher-glorifying*<br />7: Conspiracy theories about shadowy cabals of feminists making anti-male laws while only representing a tiny fraction of women (and possibly not actually being 'women' or 'human')<br />8: Trying to flog his own and other people's MRA hogwash<br /><br />I'm not fucking Amazon, advertise your bile on your own damn site. <br /><br /><br /><br />(*before anyone gets pissy, this one was a joke. The rest are sadly real)Forty Shades Of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07070982468518425595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-32454558440216312682012-01-27T01:22:37.003-08:002012-01-27T01:22:37.003-08:00I tried to make it clear in the piece that I was t...I tried to make it clear in the piece that I was talking about Mensch and the other female Tory MPs who've put themselves forward as the 'next generation' of feminists yet completely ignore anything done before them. I'd never try and say 'someone CAN'T be a feminist'. I might think their views are incompatible with the feminism I know, but that doesn't make them 'un-feminist' - except if it doesn't foster equality for all genders.<br /><br />So, to that end I was only addressing Mensch and the other MPs who support a government that is actually hurting women and moving equality back a couple of decades. However, I am aware that I can over-generalise in my use of language, and it probably looked like I was saying no one on the right can be a feminist, and I don't think that. I do think it's possible to be a conservative and a feminist (we're not going to see eye-to-eye on other issues, but you're still a feminist!), and I'm sorry for not making this clear.<br /><br />Now excuse me while I, the person who spends half her life rebuking people for generalising about anarchists and feminists, go and flagellate myself.<br /><br />Once again, I apologise for the generalised use of language.<br /><br />(*To address your other point - I don't think social change derives from the state, I think the state derives from social change (Equal Pay and Abortion Acts needed support then were made law etc.) - but I think this normalises the social change and makes it more accepted, if that makes sense.)Forty Shades Of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07070982468518425595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-57498385201354998512012-01-26T12:56:58.170-08:002012-01-26T12:56:58.170-08:00You're making a lot of assumptions about Tory ...You're making a lot of assumptions about Tory feminists as a whole based on Louise Mensch and Margaret Thatcher. Some of us do believe that social change is desirable (but that it would be more practical delivered by society not the state), that said society exists (but it's not the same as the state), and that there were Tory feminists before Labour even existed.<br /><br />Political parties are broad groups. The term "Tory" tends to refer to those on the left of the party (central in terms of UK politics, dangerously left-wing in terms of US politics), as in the Tory Reform Group.<br /><br />Clara X: Feminism for ToriesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-68462157661874372722012-01-25T12:24:18.897-08:002012-01-25T12:24:18.897-08:00Well, it's important for the forces of the est...Well, it's important for the forces of the establishment to co-opt as much "opposing" rhetoric as possible. If you can get the poor people or the second class to believe their interests are yours, you are effectively undermining political and popular opposition.Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05873440251698488032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-25404887304014825182012-01-25T11:31:32.551-08:002012-01-25T11:31:32.551-08:00whilst I agree that no one political party can cla...whilst I agree that no one political party can claim to be the holder of all things feminist, feminism is too important to be held ransom by political sway, it really is diffult to imagine her having the faintest idea what she is talking about. it is also difficult to imagine the conservative party being feminist. quite inconceivable. I have yet to meet a conservative who does anything other than talk about money. poeple do not really enter their vocabularly.<br /><br />She says that she is a feminist but spends most of the article praising herself and her party.<br /><br />A cheap political stunt to promote herself and her divisive party which cares not one jot about anyone.grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06464304966313548722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-56107318554436297552012-01-25T10:58:19.311-08:002012-01-25T10:58:19.311-08:00Wait, hang on... then WHO is Mr Potato Head?
Per...Wait, hang on... then WHO is Mr Potato Head? <br /><br />Perhaps we should start a contest on Twitter... see who can come up with Mensh's Mr Potato Head mistery person.Mary Tracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07207819303495310169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-15769973136366942002012-01-25T09:20:31.149-08:002012-01-25T09:20:31.149-08:00UPDATE: Louise Mensch has responded to me on Twitt...UPDATE: Louise Mensch has responded to me on Twitter saying my whole article is silly and she didn't call EdM 'Mr Potato Head'. I hereby retract that one sentence.<br /><br />https://twitter.com/#!/LouiseMensch/status/162221326159978496<br /><br />No word on her problems with the rest of the piece though.Forty Shades Of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07070982468518425595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-31158999094129651242012-01-25T06:53:15.828-08:002012-01-25T06:53:15.828-08:00It's days like this that I really really miss ...It's days like this that I really really miss being on twitter properly...BookElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13215705150381918855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-2405017427142429612012-01-25T06:35:55.983-08:002012-01-25T06:35:55.983-08:00Five female siblings, two long-term relationships,...Five female siblings, two long-term relationships, and two daughters have made me as appreciative of feminism as man might endeavour to be, short of drastic surgery. So I can see that Louise Mensch clearly only understands 'Hollywood' feminism, and is completely oblivious to the poverty and lack of opportunity visited on people by this government and their cronies in the boardrooms. LM is clearly 'doing it for herself' but fails to grasp that her party are rapidly removing that privilege from her 'sistas'.RJBuxtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17118083614740227316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-90661693322844056682012-01-25T06:02:29.278-08:002012-01-25T06:02:29.278-08:00The one and only thing she wrote that holds any wa...The one and only thing she wrote that holds any water is that Cameron is the most feminist leader the Tories have ever had. <br /><br />Damned with faint praise.Hallirackithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09797811244069596766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-83281215054628888802012-01-25T04:56:17.874-08:002012-01-25T04:56:17.874-08:00"you don't believe that social change is ..."you don't believe that social change is necessary"<br /><br />Or that society even exists, for that matter. Thatcher infamously said "there's not such thing as society". Which ipso facto means they can't be feminists and campaign for social change.Mary Tracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07207819303495310169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-66325100633722218852012-01-25T03:53:25.940-08:002012-01-25T03:53:25.940-08:00Conservatism (with a big C) heavily centres on ide...Conservatism (with a big C) heavily centres on ideas of right-wing individualism and a denial of collective responsibility for any problems faced by society - or indeed a flat-out denial of the problems. This is manifested in the idea that if everyone 'works hard enough' ('pulls themselves up by the bootstraps') they can have anything they want, and if people face hardship they must deserve it for not trying hard enough - taken to extremes by economic libertarian groups in the USA like the Tea Party and lots of hard-line republicans, who are well noted for cheering at the idea that a poor person might die as a result of not being able to access emergency medical treatment, and also demonstrated in a cabinet of inherited millionaires in the UK telling people (like myself) that the reason I'm on JSA is that I'm a scrounging bastard who doesn't try to get a job. There's a flat-out refusal to accept that people might need boots before they can pull themselves up by the straps.<br /><br />So, where does this leave Tory Feminism? Well, it's pretty much the same thing - "I'm powerful and a lot less oppressed than most women, therefore I did it on my own (and not through luck or inherited wealth, oh no) and if any other woman feels oppressed, she shouldn't". Thatcher is well known for saying that she "owed nothing to women's lib". They appropriate the word 'feminism' and the past gains of the movement and use them to mean "shutting the fuck up and carrying on as normal". Except in the cases like abortion rights, where the blue 'feminists' <i>actually try to remove the gains made in the past</i>. <br /><br />In short, I'd say it's pretty pointless to say you belong to a group campaigning for social change when you don't believe that social change is necessary or desirable, but Tories (and Mensch especially) know there would be a huge PR problem if they actually just admitted not being feminists.Forty Shades Of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07070982468518425595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-78809892533570561802012-01-25T03:40:53.490-08:002012-01-25T03:40:53.490-08:00Her whole article made me really angry.
But here ...Her whole article made me really angry.<br /><br />But here are a few points that made me angriest.<br /><br />1. It's all very well and good having a Tory MP set up a working party to tackle FGM. What isn't well and good is then not mentioning that the Tories cut the ministerial post to tackle FGM, meaning no one has responsibility for ending this crime.<br /><br />2. It's all very well and good mentioning funding for rape crisis (although interestingly no mention of how much funding, maybe because 'much' isn't really covering it) but there's a big deafening silence where she is not mentioning how govt cuts are resulting in the destruction of domestic violence support services. <br /><br />3. To say Yvette Cooper is cherry picking stats to 'prove' that the cuts hurt women (the PROOF IS THERE!) is a bit rich when you cherry pick one misogynistic shitty Labour peer statement to show how ALL labour are sexist, and then completely laugh off how Cameron is repeatedly sexist in his language towards women MPs and women. <br /><br />4. I absolutely cannot believe someone can call themselves a feminist and defend the proposal of anonymity for rape defendants. Again, I am not trying to say feminism is a membership club. I can even understand that women on the right can be feminist. But I do not believe that you can be anti choice and be a feminist either.sianandcrookedribhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00959715300131969670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5902857965429630827.post-12259619617103599142012-01-24T22:32:00.017-08:002012-01-24T22:32:00.017-08:00So what's the verdict here, on conservative wo...So what's the verdict here, on conservative women proclaiming themselves as feminists?<br /><br />Delusion that female subjugation is really empowering?<br />Some sort of complex "make them look bad by infiltrating them" thing?<br />Societal stockholm syndrome?Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05873440251698488032noreply@blogger.com